SDLP help DUP candidate become Belfast mayor
UTV:
Democratic Unionist councillor Wallace Browne was last night elected Belfast's new Lord Mayor, becoming the party's first person on the council to hold the post in four years.
Mr Browne defeated Sinn Fein`s Caral Ni Chuilin in a straight vote, securing the backing of the Ulster Unionist, the nationalist SDLP and cross community Alliance Party.
The last DUP councillor to hold the position of Lord Mayor was Sammy Wilson between 2000 and 2001.
Interesting to see that now that the elections are over the SDLP has gone back to being a bunch of lackeys for British colonialism. I don't know how the SDLP can claim to be a Nationalist party when they have helped a member of Ian Paisley's political party to become Belfast's mayor.
posted by Diarmid @ 9:05 AM
33 comments
33 Comments:
Diarmuid - This is , apparently , going to be news to you :
From AP/RN ,13 June 2002 , page 8 ( 'Editorial Column') -
Willie McCrea (DUP) was described as "one of the most biliously sectarian politicians in the Six Counties . It would be hard to find a Unionist politician less well disposed to Nationalists and Republicans . " I have no problem ,or issue , with that statement , Diarmuid . Nor would you , I would imagine .
BUT - (from AP/RN , same issue as above , page 3 ) - "The DUP's Willie McCrea has become the first Unionist Chair of Magherafelt District Council in 20 years . .... " at a meeting of said Council held on Tuesday 11 June 2002 . It was the vote of PSF Councillor John Kelly which secured McCrea's victory !
Incidentally , Diarmuid , at that same meeting (11/6/02) John Kelly (PSF) was elected as the 'Deputy Chair' . What a coincidence .... !
What was that about "lackeys ... " , Diarmuid ?
Sharon .
1169 And Counting.....
Hi Diarmuid - me again !
See your post for Monday May 23 ('Cuckoo Land') for my reply to your ' Northern Ireland.... ' comment .
Thanks !
Sharon,
1169 And Counting.....
It was the vote of PSF Councillor John Kelly which secured McCrea's victory
But did he vote against a fellow Nationalist the way the SDLP did? Look if you want to support the dissidents I will not try to stop you. Why do you have such a problem with me supporting Sinn Fein and the Provisional IRA?
But did he vote against a fellow Nationalist the way the SDLP did? Look if you want to support the dissidents I will not try to stop you. Why do you have such a problem with me supporting Sinn Fein and the Provisional IRA?
So it's ok for a PSF Councillor to vote a DUP candidate into power providing there are no nationalist candidates in the field ? Do PSF not abstain from a vote anymore , unless it is held in Westminster ? You are most definately clutching at straws on this one , Diarmuid !
And thank you for permission to "support the dissidents... " , Diarmiuid - I shall continue doing so now with peace of mind .... by the way , I support those who "dissent" from British mis-rule in this country .
All Republicans do !
I have no "problem " with you supporting the PIRA and PSF (even if you do not support their stated policy on the Six Counties ie the Stormont Treaty !) - however , I DO have a problem with you describing them as 'republicans' .
It tarnishes the name .
Sharon .
So it's ok for a PSF Councillor to vote a DUP candidate into power providing there are no nationalist candidates in the field?
As long as they do not end up voting against a fellow Nationalist then it is alright for Sinn Fein to vote for Unionist candidates.
As long as they do not end up voting against a fellow Nationalist then it is alright for Sinn Fein to vote for Unionist candidates.
.... ..." nationalist .. " being the operative word , as opposed to "Republican " !
So , basically , the likes of Willie McCrea , " one of the most biliously sectarian politicians in the Six Counties .... " (AP/RN) can be practically assured of PSF votes the next time he has a 'Deputy' position on offer !
The words "lackey " and "British colonialism " come to mind .... !
Have you no conscience ?
Sharon .
.... ..." nationalist .. " being the operative word , as opposed to "Republican "!
And what exactly is the difference between a Nationalist and a Republican?
And what exactly is the difference between a Nationalist and a Republican?
.... Diarmuid , I sincerly hope that this is a trick question on your part - or are you only beginning to ask those questions now ... ?
ANSWER - the same as the difference between chalk and cheese !
I would describe the SDLP and Fianna Fail (and PSF since 1986) as 'Nationalist Partys' ie will pay lip service to a (re-) united Ireland when it suits them , politically , to do so but , at the same time , will gladly work within a British or British-imposed system while claiming to be "working " towards a re-unified country ! A 'Nationalist' will accept payment/salary/expenses etc from the same system that he/she professes to be working towards bringing to an end . A Republican will not . The above is a rough summary , but just might be enough to get you thinking for yourself and not swallowing the party line on everything . Hopefully ....
Sharon.
A nationalist is someone with realistic ambitions for Irish Unity. A Republican lives in the past, fears the present and dooms the future.
A nationalist is someone with realistic ambitions for Irish Unity. A Republican lives in the past, fears the present and dooms the future.
..so said the ' Young Irelander' ,ironically ignoring the fact that a group with that name rose up against British mis-rule in 1848 - or is that just me "living in the past ... " , do you think ? I had better not mention 1916 , then .... !
Do PSF not class themselves as "republican" , YI ? Are they , too , then , "living in the past ... " as well ?
And I wonder if Diarmuid agrees with you ?
Well , Diarmuid ... ?
Perhaps next time you will think things through before commenting . And change your name to 'Young nationalist' !
Sharon .
A nationalist is someone with realistic ambitions for Irish Unity. A Republican lives in the past, fears the present and dooms the future.
The blind sympathy that you show towards the British colonists in the north of Ireland illustrates that you really don't wish to see an united Ireland except under circumstances dictated by the Unionists.
We agree on that anyway , Diarmuid : the 'Young Irelander' poster is obviously confused re the political situation on this island - to voice such an outlandish description on the differences between a 'nationalist' and a 'republican' can only be excused by pure ignorance on the part of the poster .
Either that or he/she is deliberately making mischevous !
Sharon.
Sharon
"..so said the ' Young Irelander' ,ironically ignoring the fact that a group with that name rose up against British mis-rule in 1848 - or is that just me "living in the past ... " , do you think ?"
It's not living in the past to respect one's history. Unlike the Provos though who adopted the name 'Irish Republican Army', I don't shoot and stab people to express my beliefs. I prefer ntoa rgue them out.
"Do PSF not class themselves as "republican" , YI ?"
So what if they do? They have tarnished the name 'republican'.
"Are they , too , then , "living in the past ... " as well ?"
Damn right they are.
Diarmid
"The blind sympathy that you show towards the British colonists in the north of Ireland illustrates that you really don't wish to see an united Ireland except under circumstances dictated by the Unionists."
I don't believe my comment showed any 'sympathy' towards Unionists. But why let the truth get in the way though, eh Diarmid?
Sharon (again)
"We agree on that anyway , Diarmuid : the 'Young Irelander' poster is obviously confused re the political situation on this island - to voice such an outlandish description on the differences between a 'nationalist' and a 'republican' can only be excused by pure ignorance on the part of the poster ."
That's rich coming from someone who is so out of touch with the majority opinion in Ireland that it's not even funny! Expand your way of thinking beyond green=good, orange=bad. People like you keep the border in place.
I don't believe my comment showed any 'sympathy' towards Unionists. But why let the truth get in the way though, eh Diarmid?
Then why is it that you have many posts on your website concerning the McCartney murder and yet I can find none on the loyalist murder of Lisa Dorrian?
It's not living in the past to respect one's history. Unlike the Provos though who adopted the name 'Irish Republican Army', I don't shoot and stab people to express my beliefs. I prefer ntoa rgue them out.
...our history , YI , is full of 'shooting and stabbings' done in the name of politics by people , in order to "express their beliefs ... " . You contradict yourself in your above post . My views on the PIRA should be clear to you by reading this thread , amongst others .
"Do PSF not class themselves as "republican" , YI ?"
So what if they do? They have tarnished the name 'republican'.
....they have indeed ; you and I may not agree on how they have tarnished that name , but they have nonetheless sullied the term . I am not a PIRA/PSF supporter , either .
That's rich coming from someone who is so out of touch with the majority opinion in Ireland that it's not even funny! Expand your way of thinking beyond green=good, orange=bad. People like you keep the border in place.
....'out of touch with the majority.... ' , you say ? Do you not agree that the majority of people on this island would vote to remove the British presence if the question was put to them in a poll ?
How many would vote to keep the British presence , YI , do you think ? NOT the "majority... " , don't you agree ... ?
"People like you keep the border in place ... "
...ahh , the old SDLP(PSF) mantra - 'if it was'nt for you people opposing the Brits , they'd be long gone by now ... ' . I believe that that form of words was actually coined by the Brits themselves in Cyprus in order to divide the opposition and sow dissention among the groups opposed to them in that country .
It still works in Ireland , too , obviously ! Your 'sign-in' name really is an albatross around your neck , is'nt it ? I dare say it keeps you awake at night ... ! Or at least it should .
Sharon.
Diarmid
"Then why is it that you have many posts on your website concerning the McCartney murder and yet I can find none on the loyalist murder of Lisa Dorrian?"
I oppose all murders Diarmid and don't you forget it. I suggest you check the sidebar on my site entitled British State Collusion and how I condemned the murder of Irish civilians at the hands of Loyalist/ British State forces.
Sharon
"...our history , YI , is full of 'shooting and stabbings' done in the name of politics by people , in order to "express their beliefs ... " . You contradict yourself in your above post . My views on the PIRA should be clear to you by reading this thread , amongst others ."
How do I contradict myself?
"....'out of touch with the majority.... ' , you say ? Do you not agree that the majority of people on this island would vote to remove the British presence if the question was put to them in a poll ?"
I would hope that they would vote to remove the border but one must be careful in how one describes the "British presence". Do you refer to the removal of the Unionist community when you say this? I would hope not. Alot of Irish people would be concerned with HOW Irish sovereignty would be established over 32 counties.
"How many would vote to keep the British presence , YI , do you think ? NOT the "majority... " , don't you agree ... ?"
If it was done improperly, I imagine many would vote against Irish unity. Let's not forget that a vote in the Republic on Irish Unity will only happen providing a vote is done in the North and passes and that can only happen if enough Unionists agree on unity...
"...ahh , the old SDLP(PSF) mantra - 'if it was'nt for you people opposing the Brits , they'd be long gone by now ... ' ."
I never mentioned such a mantra. Argue with me on the things I say not the things you imagine I say.
"I believe that that form of words was actually coined by the Brits themselves in Cyprus in order to divide the opposition and sow dissention among the groups opposed to them in that country ."
The PEOPLE OF IRELAND backed the GFA which provided for a way forward peacefully so I suggest you look at that rather than your 'belief' on what the British may have said over Cyprus.
"Your 'sign-in' name really is an albatross around your neck , is'nt it ? I dare say it keeps you awake at night ... ! Or at least it should ."
What's wrong with my sign-in name? We live in an era in which Provisional Sinn Fein claim association with Arthur Griffith's 1905 Sinn Fein. My pseudonym is a sign of respect to true Republicans who espoused admirable beliefs rather than the sectarianism which is flaunted as patriotic republicanism today by out of touch extremists. You need to educate yourself more on the political situation in Ireland, Sharon.
I oppose all murders Diarmid and don't you forget it. I suggest you check the sidebar on my site entitled British State Collusion and how I condemned the murder of Irish civilians at the hands of Loyalist/ British State forces.
If that is true then why have you ignored Lisa Dorrian's murder?
What's wrong with my sign-in name? We live in an era in which Provisional Sinn Fein claim association with Arthur Griffith's 1905 Sinn Fein. My pseudonym is a sign of respect to true Republicans who espoused admirable beliefs rather than the sectarianism which is flaunted as patriotic republicanism today by out of touch extremists. You need to educate yourself more on the political situation in Ireland, Sharon.
....your sign-in name signifies support for militant Republicanism (the 'Young Irelanders' , 1848) : they used violence to achieve political objectives . You condemn same today . There is nothing wrong with that particular sign-in name : it's just not 'you' !
The Provisionals deleated any ties they had to 'SF 1905' by their actions in 1986 . I have no time for PSF and am not a supporter of them . And I have forgotten more about Irish history than you yourself will ever learn . You are a fraud , 'YI' : one of many who populate message boards like this and proudly display their ignorance .
Sharon.
"If that is true then why have you ignored Lisa Dorrian's murder?"
I didn't ignore it. I don't believe I've highlighted the innocent civilians who died at the hands of Pol Pot on my blog but that doesn't mean I've ignored it. I oppose murder and the idea that you would suggest otherwise is very disappointing indeed.
"....your sign-in name signifies support for militant Republicanism (the 'Young Irelanders' , 1848) : they used violence to achieve political objectives . You condemn same today . There is nothing wrong with that particular sign-in name : it's just not 'you' !"
My sign-in name doesn't suggest support for militant Republcianism. The group no longer exist and come from a very different era in Irish society.
"The Provisionals deleated any ties they had to 'SF 1905' by their actions in 1986"
Says you. Many groups can claim association with the 1905 SF. FF, FG etc.
"And I have forgotten more about Irish history than you yourself will ever learn"
I am quite learned on Irish history, don't you worry. Clearly you've forgotten plenty of things, including your manners!
"You are a fraud , 'YI' : one of many who populate message boards like this and proudly display their ignorance"
How exactly am I a fraud? I'm a proud Irish nationalist, someone who seeks the demise of the border. You are someone stuck in the past. You spout your rhetoric but it comes to nothing in the end. Ireland has evolved past dinosaurs like you.
Regards.
My sign-in name doesn't suggest support for militant Republcianism. The group no longer exist and come from a very different era in Irish society.
...That particular organisation may indeed no longer exist in name , but its spirit lives on . You fail to recognise this .
Says you. Many groups can claim association with the 1905 SF. FF, FG etc.
...and you no doubt believe that Bertie Ahern is a socialist , too ! Don't just listen to what they say , 'YI' - watch what they do .
I am quite learned on Irish history, don't you worry. Clearly you've forgotten plenty of things, including your manners!
...not so - but I do , however , behave mannerly to those whom I know will appreciate it and not see it as a sign of weakness . And your 'knowledge' of our history leaves a lot to be desired : Bertie would consider you to be a fellow 'socialist' ... !
How exactly am I a fraud? I'm a proud Irish nationalist, someone who seeks the demise of the border. You are someone stuck in the past. You spout your rhetoric but it comes to nothing in the end. Ireland has evolved past dinosaurs like you.
...your use of said 'sign-in' name while at the same time condemning militant Republicanism smacks of fraudulent behaviour . You say I am "stuck in the past ... a dinosaur ... " - much the same as they said about Pearse , as they were spitting on him ! No , 'Young Irelander' : your politics , such as they are , are based firmly in SDLP territory and , like the Stoops , you get 'lost' when you stray into Republican areas . Re-read your description of the differences between nationalists and republicans [as published on this thread] and tell me how I could think otherwise . Your heart is in the right place , but it is not engaging with your typing fingers !
Sharon.
"...That particular organisation may indeed no longer exist in name , but its spirit lives on . You fail to recognise this ."
Uh, the fact I use the pseudonym shows I DO respect the spirit of the organisation. You don't understand what the organisation was about. It wasn't about shooting 'Prods' I assure you.
"...and you no doubt believe that Bertie Ahern is a socialist , too ! Don't just listen to what they say , 'YI' - watch what they do . "
Sharon, I asked you already to argue with me on the things I say not the things you imagine I would say.
"...not so - but I do , however , behave mannerly to those whom I know will appreciate it and not see it as a sign of weakness . And your 'knowledge' of our history leaves a lot to be desired : Bertie would consider you to be a fellow 'socialist' ... !"
Uh, do you work for Ahern or something? And your knowledge of history is far too narrow.
"...your use of said 'sign-in' name while at the same time condemning militant Republicanism smacks of fraudulent behaviour . You say I am "stuck in the past ... a dinosaur ... " - much the same as they said about Pearse , as they were spitting on him !"
The current 'republicanism' is not the republicanism that the Young Irelanders espoused. The fact that you appear to think otherwise shows your appalling view of history and current political events. And I doubt Pearse was ever called a dinosaur! Pearse was a great man. The idea that you would compare yourself to him is laughable and smacks of arrogance!
"No , 'Young Irelander' : your politics , such as they are , are based firmly in SDLP territory and , like the Stoops , you get 'lost' when you stray into Republican areas"
Your politics are based firmly in Ruairi O'Bradaigh territory and he's not doing too well right now in politics, is he?! Using language like "Stoops" shows your narrow view of Irish politics. Next thing you'll be calling me a Free Stater! Why don't you just grow up?
"Re-read your description of the differences between nationalists and republicans [as published on this thread] and tell me how I could think otherwise . Your heart is in the right place , but it is not engaging with your typing fingers !"
That's rich coming from you! Why don't you reread your response to Diarmid who asked you a perfectly reasonable question - "what is the difference between a nationalist and a republican"? Your woefully inept response was to define nationalism and then simply state that republcianism was not what nationalism was! Oh how learned of you! Why don't you share with us what you see republicanism as? I'd personally love to know!
Uh, the fact I use the pseudonym shows I DO respect the spirit of the organisation. You don't understand what the organisation was about. It wasn't about shooting 'Prods' I assure you.
...Republicanism was never about shooting 'prods' , YI - is that what you understand it to be ? Wolfe Tone himself was what you call a 'prod' - you have introduced religion into our discussion because you have lost the political argument.
Sharon, I asked you already to argue with me on the things I say not the things you imagine I would say.
..yet you don't deny it !
Uh, do you work for Ahern or something? And your knowledge of history is far too narrow.
...Do I work for Ahern ? What a daft reply ! I believe any comment outside of your view of 'republicanism' would be dismissed by you as "too narrow " . A 'catch-all' exit strategy on your part .
The current 'republicanism' is not the republicanism that the Young Irelanders espoused. The fact that you appear to think otherwise shows your appalling view of history and current political events. And I doubt Pearse was ever called a dinosaur! Pearse was a great man. The idea that you would compare yourself to him is laughable and smacks of arrogance!
...so what you term 'republicanism' was not violent in the past , no ? Poor you , 'YI' : you have it bad ! Pearse and the men and women of 1916 were dismissed at the time as 'throwbacks to the Emmet era' - news to you , I believe !
Your politics are based firmly in Ruairi O'Bradaigh territory and he's not doing too well right now in politics, is he?! Using language like "Stoops" shows your narrow view of Irish politics. Next thing you'll be calling me a Free Stater! Why don't you just grow up?
...I believe Ruairi O Bradaigh's position to be correct , yes . As my comments here would indicate . No prize there , 'YI' , for stating the obvious ! My 'Stoops' comment hit a nerve with you , I see : thank you for coming clean about your affiliation , even this late into our discussion .
That's rich coming from you! Why don't you reread your response to Diarmid who asked you a perfectly reasonable question - "what is the difference between a nationalist and a republican"? Your woefully inept response was to define nationalism and then simply state that republcianism was not what nationalism was! Oh how learned of you! Why don't you share with us what you see republicanism as? I'd personally love to know!
...But I did answer Diarmuid's question , 'YI' ! You did not like that answer , but that's to be expected from a 'Stoop' supporter (!) !
And , Uh , I have already explained what I believe Republicanism to be - see the above-mentioned Q and A . Pay attention in future , please ... !
Sharon.
I didn't ignore it. I don't believe I've highlighted the innocent civilians who died at the hands of Pol Pot on my blog but that doesn't mean I've ignored it.
And how many people did Pol Pot murder in the north of Ireland?
"...Republicanism was never about shooting 'prods' , YI - is that what you understand it to be ? Wolfe Tone himself was what you call a 'prod' - you have introduced religion into our discussion because you have lost the political argument."
Are you ignorant or just plain stupid? You quoted me saying that the republcianism espoused by the Young Irelanders was NOT about shooting Prods. Latter day republican groups have thought it WAS about that however. You knew damn well what I was saying and the fact that you are playing dumb suggests it is you who has lost the political argument.
"..yet you don't deny it !"
I usually don't feed trolls.
"...Do I work for Ahern ? What a daft reply !"
Well if you ask a daft question...
"...so what you term 'republicanism' was not violent in the past , no ? Poor you , 'YI' : you have it bad !"
Are you admitting here that you condone violence?
"Pearse and the men and women of 1916 were dismissed at the time as 'throwbacks to the Emmet era' - news to you , I believe !"
But you alleged he was labelled a 'dinosaur'! Backtracking, are we?
"...I believe Ruairi O Bradaigh's position to be correct , yes"
Ha! Well someone has to I suppose! O'Bradaigh is going nowhere in Irish politics. His policies are a joke. Make Athlone the capital of Ireland etc. He's so backward that calling him a dinosaur would be a compliment!
"My 'Stoops' comment hit a nerve with you , I see : thank you for coming clean about your affiliation , even this late into our discussion ."
Your comments highlight your ignorance and cause me much amusement rather than striking a nerve! You are stuck in the past!
"...But I did answer Diarmuid's question , 'YI' ! You did not like that answer , but that's to be expected from a 'Stoop' supporter (!) !"
Diarmid asked you to define Republianism. You did not do so. And I am not a 'Stoop' suporter. The fact that you have to make things up shows you lack not only an adequate knowledge of Irish history and the current political situation, but also that you lack the ability to argue your position effectively. You must do better.
Diarmid
"And how many people did Pol Pot murder in the north of Ireland?"
What are you suggesting with this comment?
What are you suggesting with this comment?
What I am "suggesting" is that Pol Pot has nothing to do with the north of Ireland whereas the murder of Lisa Dorrian - which was carried out by loyalists - does have something to do with the Six Counties. I am also "suggesting" that it is strange that a "nationalist" such as yourself has all the time in the world to attack the republicans who murdered Robert McCartney and yet you apparently can't find the time to condemn the loyalists who murdered Lisa Dorrian.
"What I am "suggesting" is that Pol Pot has nothing to do with the north of Ireland whereas the murder of Lisa Dorrian - which was carried out by loyalists - does have something to do with the Six Counties. I am also "suggesting" that it is strange that a "nationalist" such as yourself has all the time in the world to attack the republicans who murdered Robert McCartney and yet you apparently can't find the time to condemn the loyalists who murdered Lisa Dorrian."
Well I suggest that you are using that poor woman's death as a way of drawing attention away from the disgraceful murder of Robert McCartney and that you are politicising it for your own ends. I condemn ALL murders and as I told you already, you will find plenty of examples on my blog in which I have criticised both Loyalist murders and the murders orchestrated by British Intelligence. Furthermore my sidebar has plenty of information about the British State murdering Irish civilians. I "find it strange" that you choose to overlook this.
Well I suggest that you are using that poor woman's death as a way of drawing attention away from the disgraceful murder of Robert McCartney and that you are politicising it for your own ends.
You still haven't explained why you have ignored Lisa Dorrian's murder.
"You still haven't explained why you have ignored Lisa Dorrian's murder."
I already explained to you that I didn't ignore it. The fact I did not make a post about it does not mean I do not care about the issue. I oppose ALL murders. If you are going to persist with this kind of scornful, scraping-the-barrel type nonsense then I will not be returning to your blog any time soon. I think you are getting very close to over-the-line, derogatory remarks and that is unnecessary.
Are you ignorant or just plain stupid? You quoted me saying that the republcianism espoused by the Young Irelanders was NOT about shooting Prods. Latter day republican groups have thought it WAS about that however. You knew damn well what I was saying and the fact that you are playing dumb suggests it is you who has lost the political argument.
"ignorant or stupid .. "
- and you accuse me of not minding my manners ! You brought religion into this discussion , YI , and now regret having done so , as you should . It is only fitting that your conscience trouble you over it .
Are you admitting here that you condone violence?
... in self defence , do you mean ? Then very definately YES ! But I do not support or condone the violence of the aggressor . You do realise there is a difference , YI , don't you ... ?
"Pearse and the men and women of 1916 were dismissed at the time as 'throwbacks to the Emmet era' - news to you , I believe !"
But you alleged he was labelled a 'dinosaur'! Backtracking, are we?
.... I believe it was a certain J.R. Fisher ('Northern Whig' newspaper and staunch Unionist) who called Pearse "a dinosaur , a throwback to the Emmet era ... " Uh , 'Backtrack' that , YI !!
Ha! Well someone has to I suppose! O'Bradaigh is going nowhere in Irish politics. His policies are a joke. Make Athlone the capital of Ireland etc. He's so backward that calling him a dinosaur would be a compliment!
...Oh nasty ! In a school-boy sort of way ! And where are your manners gone , YI ? I presume by 'Irish politics' you mean elected reps , in which case PSF are going no-where compared to FF . Or FG , for that matter ! It's a 'numbers game' to you , then , YI ... ?
Your comments highlight your ignorance and cause me much amusement rather than striking a nerve! You are stuck in the past!
.....Wow ! I really did hit a nerve ... !
Diarmid asked you to define Republianism. You did not do so. And I am not a 'Stoop' suporter. The fact that you have to make things up shows you lack not only an adequate knowledge of Irish history and the current political situation, but also that you lack the ability to argue your position effectively. You must do better.
....I did define Republicanism as I understand it , YI - my reply is published further up this very thread ! You obviously do not agree with my answer and thats fine in itself . But to say I did not answer at all is not correct on your part . Yet you persist in doing it ... ! And you also persist in denying your support for the SDLP - really , 'YI' , have the courage to stand by your convictions even in a discussion like this . You will never grow up otherwise !
Sharon .
I already explained to you that I didn't ignore it. The fact I did not make a post about it does not mean I do not care about the issue.
You just care less about a woman being murdered by loyalists than you do about a man being killed by republicans which is why there are plenty of posts on your site about Robert McCartney but not Lisa Dorrian.
If you are going to persist with this kind of scornful, scraping-the-barrel type nonsense then I will not be returning to your blog any time soon.
Yes, you should go back to attacking republican violence while ignoring loyalist killings which seems to be what you are best at.
Sharon
""ignorant or stupid .. "
- and you accuse me of not minding my manners ! You brought religion into this discussion , YI , and now regret having done so , as you should . It is only fitting that your conscience trouble you over it ."
Latter day republican groups brought religion into republicanism and should regret having done so. Groups like the Continuity IRA (aligned with your friend O'Bradaigh) who have bastardised republicanism. My conscience is clear. I don't support the murder of people who have different religious and political attitudes to me.
"... in self defence , do you mean ? Then very definately YES ! But I do not support or condone the violence of the aggressor . You do realise there is a difference , YI , don't you ... ?"
Paramilitary groups like the Continuity IRA are aggressors.
".... I believe it was a certain J.R. Fisher ('Northern Whig' newspaper and staunch Unionist) who called Pearse "a dinosaur , a throwback to the Emmet era ... " Uh , 'Backtrack' that , YI !!"
Certainly - you said "they called Pearse a dinosaur as they were "spitting on him" presumably referring to the people of Dublin.
"...Oh nasty ! In a school-boy sort of way ! And where are your manners gone , YI ? I presume by 'Irish politics' you mean elected reps , in which case PSF are going no-where compared to FF . Or FG , for that matter ! It's a 'numbers game' to you , then , YI ... ?"
My manners went when you disrespected me. PSF, much as I hate to say it, are doing well electorally and have much support unlike RSF which is in no man's land.
".....Wow ! I really did hit a nerve ... !"
Nah, just my funny bone. ;)
"....I did define Republicanism as I understand it , YI - my reply is published further up this very thread ! You obviously do not agree with my answer and thats fine in itself . But to say I did not answer at all is not correct on your part . Yet you persist in doing it ..."
You did not define Republicanism. Only nationalism.
"And you also persist in denying your support for the SDLP - really , 'YI' , have the courage to stand by your convictions even in a discussion like this . You will never grow up otherwise !"
How could I support a party that does not exist in my state? I am no SDLP supporter and I regard myself as a floating voter. As for growing up, telling people who they support is not very mature now is it?
I will now retire from this discussion (and this blog) as I feel it has run its course. You and I clearly have very different hopes for Ireland although I'm sure we want what's best for this island even though we have differing views. I wish you all the best and apologise for any immaturity I may have shown.
Diarmid
"You just care less about a woman being murdered by loyalists than you do about a man being killed by republicans which is why there are plenty of posts on your site about Robert McCartney but not Lisa Dorrian."
Needless to say, that is rubbish. I have highlighted the danger posed by Loyalists several times. This week I made a post about Loyalists targeting nationalist civilians. To say such things about me, which you know to be nonsense, reflects porrly on you but then again I shouldn't expect much from an individual who regards unionists as "colonial". For you to drag the name of that poor girl Lisa Dorrian through the mud as a pathetic way of taking a shot at me is shameful but that is for your conscience to deal with.
"Yes, you should go back to attacking republican violence while ignoring loyalist killings which seems to be what you are best at."
You highlight your idiocy with this comment when my sidebar contains several posts on Loyalist/British State collusion!
You go back to writing your diatribes about the evil colonial unionists. I'm done with this site and I'll leave you to your tribal attitude.
For you to drag the name of that poor girl Lisa Dorrian through the mud as a pathetic way of taking a shot at me is shameful but that is for your conscience to deal with.
How am I dragging her name through the mud by pointing out that you can't be bothered to make posts about her murder on your blog?
Latter day republican groups brought religion into republicanism and should regret having done so. Groups like the Continuity IRA (aligned with your friend O'Bradaigh) who have bastardised republicanism. My conscience is clear. I don't support the murder of people who have different religious and political attitudes to me.
....either do Republicans , 'YI' - have you not seen through the media hype (ie 'religious war' ) on that one yet ? And you did bring the issue of religion into this thread .
Paramilitary groups like the Continuity IRA are aggressors.
...the Irish did not start this conflict , 'Yi' ! How , therefore , can they be 'the aggressors' ? You truly are a mish-mash of political nonsense !
Certainly - you said "they called Pearse a dinosaur as they were "spitting on him" presumably referring to the people of Dublin.
....but the people of Dublin DID call Pearse "a dinosaur" , 'YI' , as did the dublin-based media , following the lead shown by Fisher in 'The Northern Whig' newspaper ! Why comment when you are not in receipt of the full facts ?
My manners went when you disrespected me. PSF, much as I hate to say it, are doing well electorally and have much support unlike RSF which is in no man's land.
.... Who called who " ignorant or stupid ... " , 'YI' ? See my point ?
Republicans always contested elections , 'YI' (and still do) , but they were never the 'be-all-and-end-all' of Republican strategy as you apparently believe them to be . But that's typical for a nationalist .....
You did not define Republicanism. Only nationalism.
... Here is the post I made on that question : I would describe the SDLP and Fianna Fail (and PSF since 1986) as 'Nationalist Partys' ie will pay lip service to a (re-) united Ireland when it suits them , politically , to do so but , at the same time , will gladly work within a British or British-imposed system while claiming to be "working " towards a re-unified country ! A 'Nationalist' will accept payment/salary/expenses etc from the same system that he/she professes to be working towards bringing to an end . A Republican will not . The above is a rough summary , but just might be enough to get you thinking for yourself and not swallowing the party line on everything . Now do you see what I believe to be the difference between a 'Nationalist' and a 'Republican' ? Finally ... !
How could I support a party that does not exist in my state? I am no SDLP supporter and I regard myself as a floating voter. As for growing up, telling people who they support is not very mature now is it?
....of course you could support a party that does not exist in this State ! (One of my sons supports Liverpool FC , yet they don't exist in this State !) "Mature" ? - as in "ignorant or stupid " , you mean .... !!
I will now retire from this discussion (and this blog) as I feel it has run its course. You and I clearly have very different hopes for Ireland although I'm sure we want what's best for this island even though we have differing views. I wish you all the best and apologise for any immaturity I may have shown.
...you would be better served 'retiring' from political commentary altogether , 'YI' !
And you will , hopefully , come to understand that it is not ok to be immature with people believing that a later apology will 'fix' everything . Life is not like that , 'YI' . Neither is politics .
Sharon .
1169 And Counting.....
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